finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

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finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Nick Hughes
Hi Folks,

I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between them.  For instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the beginning of track 1 with no gap.

I suspect there is some audio processing here and thought the sox list would be a good place to start.  For instance, the last sample of track 0 could have perhaps close amplitude level as first sample of track 1.  Other considerations would be frequency analysis.

Anyone have any suggestions or could point me in the right direction?

Thanks

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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Ulrich Klauer-2
Nick Hughes wrote:

> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between them.  For
> instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the beginning of track 1
> with no gap.

Does it have to be automated? If not, I'd probably just take a  
spectrogram of the transition region and look for signs of a click (a  
thin vertical bar).

Ulrich


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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Nick Hughes
Hi,

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Ulrich Klauer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nick Hughes wrote:

> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between them.  For
> instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the beginning of track 1
> with no gap.

Does it have to be automated? If not, I'd probably just take a
spectrogram of the transition region and look for signs of a click (a
thin vertical bar).

Yes, I wanted to perform it programmatically/automated.  I looked at "Sonic Visualiser", which has a spectrogram however that's manual.  I'm starting to believe that getting something automated is going to be a big coding project.

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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

keghn
 Hello,
 What do you think about Audacity software?
 I have look at wave, and mp3 file and viewed there wave forms in detail.


-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Hughes <[hidden email]>
To: sox-users <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Jul 29, 2013 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [SoX-users] finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Hi,

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Ulrich Klauer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nick Hughes wrote:

> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between them.  For
> instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the beginning of track 1
> with no gap.

Does it have to be automated? If not, I'd probably just take a
spectrogram of the transition region and look for signs of a click (a
thin vertical bar).

Yes, I wanted to perform it programmatically/automated.  I looked at "Sonic Visualiser", which has a spectrogram however that's manual.  I'm starting to believe that getting something automated is going to be a big coding project.
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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Fmiser
In reply to this post by Nick Hughes
> Nick wrote:
>
> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between
> them.  For instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the
> beginning of track 1 with no gap.

So you are wanting to compare the _content_ of two files - the end
of the one and the beginning of the second?  And so you want to
determine if the contents "fit" as a continuous audio waveform?

*whew*  I don't know of any way to do that unless the waveform is
predictable - as in _not_ music.

--       Philip

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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

RT

Sounds like you need a mathematical program like octave or it's paid version matlab

On Jul 29, 2013 9:38 AM, "Fmiser" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Nick wrote:
>
> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between
> them.  For instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the
> beginning of track 1 with no gap.

So you are wanting to compare the _content_ of two files - the end
of the one and the beginning of the second?  And so you want to
determine if the contents "fit" as a continuous audio waveform?

*whew*  I don't know of any way to do that unless the waveform is
predictable - as in _not_ music.

--       Philip

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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Peter Shute
Doesn't it depend on what is meant by "gap"? If there's no possibility of there being a section missing (a negative gap), then it must mean that there may or may not be a section of silence at the end of the first part and/or the start of the second part. Surely there are ways to detect silence if it's long enough. Then the main problem is determining whether the silence is part of the recording or not.

Or have I misunderstood?

Sent from my iPad

On 30/07/2013, at 5:40 AM, "RT" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:


Sounds like you need a mathematical program like octave or it's paid version matlab

On Jul 29, 2013 9:38 AM, "Fmiser" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> Nick wrote:
>
> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between
> them.  For instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the
> beginning of track 1 with no gap.

So you are wanting to compare the _content_ of two files - the end
of the one and the beginning of the second?  And so you want to
determine if the contents "fit" as a continuous audio waveform?

*whew*  I don't know of any way to do that unless the waveform is
predictable - as in _not_ music.

--       Philip

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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

keghn
In reply to this post by Nick Hughes

 Use Audacity. For viewing the wave form of you sounds.









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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Nick Hughes
In reply to this post by Peter Shute
Yes, your understanding is correct.  The silence may or may not be part of the recording.  I suspect if there were silence between two audio files, which were ultimately from a CD, where each audio file represented a track, that would highly suggest a 2 second gap between Redbook CDROM tracks should be used.  Given that, I suspect RMS amplitude comparison is probably the easiest method of performing this.


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Peter Shute <[hidden email]> wrote:
Doesn't it depend on what is meant by "gap"? If there's no possibility of there being a section missing (a negative gap), then it must mean that there may or may not be a section of silence at the end of the first part and/or the start of the second part. Surely there are ways to detect silence if it's long enough. Then the main problem is determining whether the silence is part of the recording or not.

Or have I misunderstood?

Sent from my iPad

On 30/07/2013, at 5:40 AM, "RT" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:


Sounds like you need a mathematical program like octave or it's paid version matlab

On Jul 29, 2013 9:38 AM, "Fmiser" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> Nick wrote:
>
> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between
> them.  For instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the
> beginning of track 1 with no gap.

So you are wanting to compare the _content_ of two files - the end
of the one and the beginning of the second?  And so you want to
determine if the contents "fit" as a continuous audio waveform?

*whew*  I don't know of any way to do that unless the waveform is
predictable - as in _not_ music.

--       Philip

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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Nick Hughes
In reply to this post by RT
Yeah, I was considering using some low level libraries like those in Sonic Visualizer project.  I was just hoping to avoid reinventing the wheel as often happens when skipping research.


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:40 PM, RT <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sounds like you need a mathematical program like octave or it's paid version matlab

On Jul 29, 2013 9:38 AM, "Fmiser" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Nick wrote:
>
> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between
> them.  For instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the
> beginning of track 1 with no gap.

So you are wanting to compare the _content_ of two files - the end
of the one and the beginning of the second?  And so you want to
determine if the contents "fit" as a continuous audio waveform?

*whew*  I don't know of any way to do that unless the waveform is
predictable - as in _not_ music.

--       Philip

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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Peter Shute
Audacity has a silence detection plug in. I've never used it, but it's probably intended for finding the gaps between music tracks to assist splitting into separate files.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Hughes [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013 8:15 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [SoX-users] finding if two files are continuous
> (gap detection)?
>
> Yeah, I was considering using some low level libraries like
> those in Sonic Visualizer project.  I was just hoping to
> avoid reinventing the wheel as often happens when skipping research.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:40 PM, RT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Sounds like you need a mathematical program like octave
> or it's paid version matlab
>
> On Jul 29, 2013 9:38 AM, "Fmiser" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> > Nick wrote:
> >
> > I'm trying to determine if two audio files
> have a gap between
> > them.  For instance if the end of track 0,
> transitions into the
> > beginning of track 1 with no gap.
>
> So you are wanting to compare the _content_ of
> two files - the end
> of the one and the beginning of the second?  
> And so you want to
> determine if the contents "fit" as a continuous
> audio waveform?
>
> *whew*  I don't know of any way to do that
> unless the waveform is
> predictable - as in _not_ music.
>
> --       Philip
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> Get your SQL database under version control now!
> Version control is standard for application
> code, but databases havent
> caught up. So what steps can you take to put
> your SQL databases under
> version control? Why should you start doing it?
> Read more to find out.
>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=49501711&iu=/414
0/ostg.clktrk

> _______________________________________________
> Sox-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sox-users
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> Get your SQL database under version control now!
> Version control is standard for application code, but
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> caught up. So what steps can you take to put your SQL
> databases under
> version control? Why should you start doing it? Read
> more to find out.
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>
>
>
>
>
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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

Jan Stary
In reply to this post by Nick Hughes
On Jul 27 21:27:57, [hidden email] wrote:
> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between them.  For
> instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the beginning of track 1
> with no gap.

When you say "tracks", you mean the two files,
not two track as e.g. in a stereo file, right?

What exactly is a "gap" here?
The first file's last audio sample will be a number.
The second file's first audio sample will be some other other.
Is that a "gap"?

> For instance, the last sample of track 0
> could have perhaps close amplitude level as first sample of track 1.

What is "close" then?

> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Peter Shute <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Doesn't it depend on what is meant by "gap"? If there's no possibility of
> > there being a section missing (a negative gap), then it must mean that
> > there may or may not be a section of silence at the end of the first part
> > and/or the start of the second part. Surely there are ways to detect
> > silence if it's long enough. Then the main problem is determining whether
> > the silence is part of the recording or not.

On Jul 29 18:14:07, [hidden email] wrote:
> Yes, your understanding is correct.  The silence may or may not be part of
> the recording.  I suspect if there were silence between two audio files,
> which were ultimately from a CD, where each audio file represented a track,
> that would highly suggest a 2 second gap between Redbook CDROM tracks
> should be used.

Ah, so you are trying to find out whether the two audio files
could be e.g. two consecutive songs from a CD

> Given that, I suspect RMS amplitude comparison is probably
> the easiest method of performing this.

The RMS of one Grand Concerto, Part One
has nothing to do with the RMS of Part Two.

I'm afraid I don't really get what you are trying to do, exactly.
If I give you file1.wav and file2.wav which happen to be
the recordings of "Sun King" and "Mean Mr. Mustard" respectively,
are they "continuous"? Yes they are. No they're not.


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Re: finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

keghn
 Hello,
 If these file have been combined in to one then just view it with "Audacity"  software:

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

 With ease you can see down to 100th of a second gap if it excised.

 There is also "Sonic Visualiser" that can view all the wave patterns.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Stary <[hidden email]>
To: sox-users <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tue, Aug 6, 2013 2:31 pm
Subject: Re: [SoX-users] finding if two files are continuous (gap detection)?

On Jul 27 21:27:57, [hidden email] wrote:
> I'm trying to determine if two audio files have a gap between them.  For
> instance if the end of track 0, transitions into the beginning of track 1
> with no gap.

When you say "tracks", you mean the two files,
not two track as e.g. in a stereo file, right?

What exactly is a "gap" here?
The first file's last audio sample will be a number.
The second file's first audio sample will be some other other.
Is that a "gap"?

> For instance, the last sample of track 0
> could have perhaps close amplitude level as first sample of track 1.

What is "close" then?

> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Peter Shute <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Doesn't it depend on what is meant by "gap"? If there's no possibility of
> > there being a section missing (a negative gap), then it must mean that
> > there may or may not be a section of silence at the end of the first part
> > and/or the start of the second part. Surely there are ways to detect
> > silence if it's long enough. Then the main problem is determining whether
> > the silence is part of the recording or not.

On Jul 29 18:14:07, [hidden email] wrote:
> Yes, your understanding is correct.  The silence may or may not be part of
> the recording.  I suspect if there were silence between two audio files,
> which were ultimately from a CD, where each audio file represented a track,
> that would highly suggest a 2 second gap between Redbook CDROM tracks
> should be used.

Ah, so you are trying to find out whether the two audio files
could be e.g. two consecutive songs from a CD

> Given that, I suspect RMS amplitude comparison is probably
> the easiest method of performing this.

The RMS of one Grand Concerto, Part One
has nothing to do with the RMS of Part Two.

I'm afraid I don't really get what you are trying to do, exactly.
If I give you file1.wav and file2.wav which happen to be
the recordings of "Sun King" and "Mean Mr. Mustard" respectively,
are they "continuous"? Yes they are. No they're not.


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